Arm And Hammer Anvil Serial Numbers

Jun 25, 2017 - Looks like a Hay-Budden, but the serial number doesn't seem right for that. I'm thinking early Hay Budden or Arm & Hammer, which brings it. Oct 30, 2012  Throw that serial number up on Iforgiron and someone will look up the date for you. I favor the fist level anvil height myself. I haven't had any back issues from forging, but a higher anvil aggravates my wrist and elbow because I can't get as full a swing with the hammer. May 14, 2014 - This anvil is either a Hay budden, a Trenton or an Arm & Hammer. Midnight club 3 dub edition remix psp cso torrent. Those three brands used serial numbers. Because the serial number is on.

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  1. Hot Rolled
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    Found an anvil, have a few questions about it

    I finally found an anvil on craigslist, bought it and have some questions about it I was hoping someone could shed some light on.
    I have a hard time making the logo out but I think it is a Trenton. It is a 125lb, and serial number of 202270 stamped on the foot, both weight in pounds and serial number are stamped in the base. It bounces a 3/4' ball bearing very well, coming up ~80% or more of original height. The top is flat, but the top and base aren't very close to parallel, off maybe 1/4' or more.
    My main question is it looks like the top was actually welded on at the waist, weld beads on the front and back, but the logo goes over the joint line makes me think it was welded from the factory.
    Picture of the welded section, this is on the front and back of the anvil
    Thanks for any help on the ID of my new anvil,
    Ryan
  2. Rock Crusher
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    I believe the later Trenton anvils were factory welded together and lightly stamped with the logo. Also on these late anvils they used an X instead of an N in the logo. Looks right to me. Ed.
  3. Titanium
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    That is a very clean and crisp looking anvil..doesn't appear to have been used much at all. Great find.
    Stuart
  4. Diamond
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    Looks to be in great shape, nice clean top.
    The iforgeiron site will probably have info for you: Blacksmithing Forum I Forge Iron
    I wouldn't worry about the top not being exactly parallel to the base, you can level it when you make a stand for it, or just adjust your hammering technique. Blacksmithing is a pretty forgiving way of moving metal Here's my stand, 1' plate on 1X3' tubing legs, sections of angle welded to plate at corners. The anvil is glued down with 3M 5200, which will release it with a torch (maybe). Right now you can lift the anvil and the stand will come up too
  5. Diamond
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    Originally Posted by atomarc
    That is a very clean and crisp looking anvil..doesn't appear to have been used much at all. Great find.
    I agree with Stuart. This anvil has such crisp corners on it, you might want to relieve the rear up by the horn just a tad. I only say that as most smiths prefer a slightly rounded back edge to work off. If you are not familiar or uncomfortable with this, leave it as-is and be safe with a nice anvil with crisp edges. Most smiths also prefer the rest of the edges to be crisp as yours are. At least this is speaking for the smiths I know, arguably only a dozen or so..
    Very nice anvil. Clean it up and it will be a fine tool. Don't worry about the top/base being parallel, what you care about is how flat it is and how square the corners are. Horn is in great shape also. If it bothers you, you can take a belt sander to the bottom of the anvil to bring the top/bottom parallel, but don't touch the top at all, just clean it. I would just mount it on a stump and level the stump, I wouldn't do anything to the anvil in regards to top/bottom. Just put it on stump and level it up for yourself.
    I have a similar condition Hay Budden 128#. I don't use it much and have another 160# in good shape but not nearly as nice as the 128#. The previous owner who possibly bought it new softened the trailing edge just behind the horn. I don't use the 128# much as it is in such good shape, but if I didn't have the 160# I would use it more.
    Compare your anvil to some with rolled edges and swayed backs and you will appreciate what you have. Although, that said, contours are good for forging stuff also..
    Cheers,
    Alan
  6. Diamond
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    I think the logo says PEXTO,for what it's worth. A good brand in sheet metal equipment. I suppose their anvils would be good,too. I wouldn't worry about the base being parallel either. Fit it to a slanted stump till the top is parallel. That's all that matters. If the top isn't parallel,you'll be striking lots of 'cat faces'on your work. Make the height of the anvil face the height of your arm hanging down with a fist. Make your hammer handles so that when you hold up your fore arm with the hammer head grasped in your hand,with your fingers curved vertically over the head,the handle reaches to the bottom of your elbow. I hope this makes sense.
  7. Cast Iron
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    I think you will find that the fist high anvil height will be too low for most work done by smiths today. It is OK for heavy work with big hammer or strikers but for most lighter work you will be bending over all the time.
    Bob
    WB8NQW
  8. Aluminum
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    I purchased a 172# Trenton off of craigslist earlier this year. According to my serial # it was made sometime in the 1920s. Mine has seen considerable use. I wish I could have gotten the 1' cold chisel that was used on it. There were hundreds of marks from the chisel on top and sides, all showing a very nice sharp edge.
    Yours looks much newer and in almost pristine shape. At the time I bought mine and was researching it there were a number of ads from old catalogs on EBAY. The pages could be downloaded and magnified to show great detail. Unfortunately I don't see them listed now.
    I rigged up my Bader Spacesaver belt grinder as a stroke sander and cleaned up the top. I know most people say to leave it alone but I want to use it, not just look at it and wonder what the previous owner was doing.
    Enjoy your anvil.
    MT6
  9. Diamond
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    Originally Posted by blcksmth
    I think you will find that the fist high anvil height will be too low for most work done by smiths today. It is OK for heavy work with big hammer or strikers but for most lighter work you will be bending over all the time.
    I don't know about that, I do keep my anvil at that height and find that if you're forging for longer periods, say 8-10 hours, you will find that if you do not have the height set properly it's easy to stretch your shoulder/back muscles and be left in some real pain. It really does pay to take your time and spend time learning how to swing a hammer properly, if you want to learn how to forge metal properly.
    When the anvil is fist high, your forearm should be parallel to the anvil surface when the hammer strikes the work. If I am not like that and swinging from the outside or twisting my hand, it's easy for me to throw my shoulder/back out after an extended period of forging. I think all of our mileage varies, and some folks just never find themselves forging for long periods like that so maybe it doesn't matter. Similar with a woodworking workbench height, some like the bench a bit lower if they are doing a lot of hand planing, but it's much more comfortable up higher for many tasks. If the anvil is too high it leads to some problems also. This is how I was taught, and some of it I did have to figure out the hard way by evaluating why/how I had hurt my shoulder/back.
    Cheers,
    Alan
  10. Diamond
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    I just know what the blacksmith shop in Williamsburg does. They are highly expert smiths,and much of the work they do is light stuff such as products to sell in the museum shops,though they also do much heavier work such as curved carriage axles,parts for the 18th.C. fire engine we made,etc. Whatever comes along. I made the patterns for their period anvils,treadle lathe,etc.,so had much association with them over many years.
    No comment about the PEXTO logo?
  11. Hot Rolled
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    I see a clear 'TRE' at the beginning of the diamond shaped logo, so I am going with the Trenton ID. That is also consistent with the welded waist and the serial number. I believe the Trentons had a cast iron base welded to a steel top. Either way, that's one pretty anvil.
    Throw that serial number up on Iforgiron and someone will look up the date for you.
    I favor the fist level anvil height myself. I haven't had any back issues from forging, but a higher anvil aggravates my wrist and elbow because I can't get as full a swing with the hammer.
  12. Rock Crusher
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    I know Pexto made stake anvils for working sheet metal but I didn't know they made blacksmith anvils. Could be?
    Originally Trenton anvils were imported to the US from Germany (Hermann Boker) and maybe England. Later they were produced in the US by the Columbus Forge and Iron Company(CF&I). CF&I also had the Indian Chief and Buel post vise lines but kept the Trenton name for the anvils when they started production. CF&I often welded their anvil tops to cast bases which they purchased from another foundry. Easy to see how they could get a bit out of square using this manufacturing method. I'm not sure why CF&I started using an X in the logo..could have been for seconds? Ed.
  13. Diamond
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    Originally Posted by fciron
    I see a clear 'TRE' at the beginning of the diamond shaped logo, so I am going with the Trenton ID. That is also consistent with the welded waist and the serial number. I believe the Trentons had a cast iron base welded to a steel top.
    You are absolutely correct, this is a Trenton anvil for all the reasons you state.
    Here's a Trenton logo on an anvil.
    Cheers,
    Alan
  14. Hot Rolled
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    So it's not really an 'X' in the logo, but a stylized 'N'. Cool.
  15. Diamond
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    Originally Posted by fciron
    So it's not really an 'X' in the logo, but a stylized 'N'. Cool.
    Yes, it's kinda odd.
    Originally Posted by fciron
    I favor the fist level anvil height myself. I haven't had any back issues from forging, but a higher anvil aggravates my wrist and elbow because I can't get as full a swing with the hammer.
    BTW, I just wanted to comment that my shoulder/back problems were really my own fault. As I tired, I started to swing with an outside arc. Interesting to note that I realized the answer reading an old army or government document on blacksmithing. They described the hammer swing as being in 3 parts 1) full arm motion, 2) elbow/forearm, 3) wrist. The later is important as you should snap your wrist properly. When the anvil is too high it put a crimp on that last snap also, that could have an effect. Very similar to an improper golf swing or tennis swing or I would imagine even a bad baseball swing with the bat, all of these motions have a lot in common with each other.
    That said, it really matters what one is forging, if you have a striker, etc..
    That above anvil will be a beauty after it's cleaned up, I hope the OP posts a pic after the fact.
    Cheers,
    Alan
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    That three part swing description is very apt. It made a big difference in my forging when I learned it, better control and more power. Of course, years of practice didn't hurt either.
  17. HWooldridge
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    Setting anvil height is often related to the size of work. Large stock and/or using struck tools requires a lower setting; small work done primarily with a hand hammer will tolerate more height. Aside from being related to the smith's arm rather than a machine, this concept is no different from the stroke daylight required on power hammers or presses. An adjustable anvil stand is most useful to accomplish this if multiple anvils are not available.
  18. Cast Iron
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    Originally Posted by blcksmth
    I think you will find that the fist high anvil height will be too low for most work done by smiths today. It is OK for heavy work with big hammer or strikers but for most lighter work you will be bending over all the time.
    Bob
    WB8NQW
    AMEN Brother ...
    I like to joke that whoever first said 'Fist high', was misinterpreted, .. and actually said 'Wrist high'.
    Your personal body build also has a lot to do with what's a comfortable height for you.
    Personally, .. being 6'2', and having a 'barrel chest', ( and belly ) I like all my work surfaces 36' to 42' high.
    Being 'hunched over' tends to 'wear me out', much quicker than any other factor.
    Decades ago, I worked in a shop that had a WWII era poster on the wall, that said 'Patriots Stand Erect'.
    I have no idea about the original context of that proclamation, .. but I've never forgotten it's universal wisdom.
    .
  19. Diamond
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    At least the Trenton logo is stamped clearer. Very peculiar X shaped N.
  20. Hot Rolled
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    Thanks for all the info on the anvil and stand height guys. As requested I'll post a picture or two when it gets cleaned up and a stand made for it when I get some downtime.
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Dating Arm & Hammer Anvil

Anvil identification, quick and dirty
Michael J. Kaiser·Thursday, October 26, 2017
This quick and dirty guide to anvil identification is a combination of a few sources, the ABANA website (the new website does not include the older forum info, for some reason), Richard Postman’s book Anvils in America and will be updated as needed.
From the ABANA forum;
Ken Scharabok
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 6:22 am:
This is just intended as a rough guide for identifying anvils which are not clearly marked. For more detail information see Anvil's in America by Richard Postman (and More on Anvils when it is published):
- If there is an oval depression in the bottom it may be either a Trenton. Arm & Hammer or Swedish. If there is a clear line/seam showning a top plate it would likely be a Trenton or Arm & Hammer. If the area under the heel is rough worked, it would likely be a Arm & Hammer. No seam, then I would suspect a one-piece cast Swedish.
- If there is an hourglass shaped depression on the bottom it is likely a Hay-Budden (with the exception of some manufacturer put out 50 pounders with a hourglass depression also).
- If you see a series of numbers (serial number) on the front foot, it is almost certainly to be a Trenton, Hay-Budden or Arm & Hammer. If it starts with an A, it would be an H-B. Arm & Hammers do not go over about 52,000.
- If it meets the other criteria for one of the above, and it has no serial number, it may be one of their rejects sold on the secondary market. Usually, but not always, it was due to an incomplete weld between the anvil and top plate. When they tested it, they didn't get the 'ring' all over the plate they wanted.
- If you see numbers at the waist such as 1 1 20, it is a British made anvil. This is their stone weight system to where the first number represents multiples of 112 (1/20th a long ton), second represents multiples of 28 and third is remaining pounds. Thus this would be 160 pounds (112 plus 28 times two plus 20). Usually off from scale weight a tad.
- If you see punch marks between the numbers, such as 1 . 1 . 20, it is likely a Mousehole. Sometimes all which remains are the two punch marks.
- If there are small, flat steps on top of the front and back feet it is almost certain to be an English Peter Wright.
- If it has five handling holes, with two on the front and back feet, it is almost certain to be an English Peter Wright.
- If it is the London pattern (what you would typically consider an anvil to look like) and there is no seam between the body and top plate, it may be Swedish one-piece cast steel. (However, anvil makers were sometimes very, very good at working in the seam.)
- American British and Continental Europe manufacturers made double-horned anvils, and specialty anvils, such as saw maker, carriage or plowshare anvils, so these are of little help by themselves.
- If you see what looks to be an Eagle on the side, it is almost certain to be a Fisher Norris. Eagle is usually holding an anchor, perhaps because Fisher made many of the big ship and shipyard anvils for the U.S. Navy. Largest anvil every known to have been made (1,400 pounds) is a Fisher.
- If you see what looks to be an arm holding a hammer on the side it could be either Vulcan or Arm & Hammer. Vulcans were raised while Arm & hammer's were stamped in. Vulcans tended to be short and blockly while A&Hs were more sleek looking.
- If the anvil has no 'ring' when struck, it is likely a cast iron body with steel plate on top. (These were sometimes called 'city anvils'.) Likely either Vulcan or Fisher. Vuncans tended to be more blocky while Fisher's were more typically of the sleeker London pattern. Older Fishers had a handling hole under the horn and heel also, while Vulcan's didn't, and newer Fishers (after the late 1800s) usually had the mold pattern date under the heel.
If you see what looks to be II&B on the front foot it would be a Vulcan (Illinois Iron and Bolt Co). Some people incorrectly think this is H&B for Hay-Budden.
- If you see what looks to be a relief of a Badger within an oval, it would be a Badger (American Skein and Foundry Co. of Racine, WI). If for sale snatch it up at almost any reasonable price as this would be a very, very rare anvil. The other American anvil considered to be rare is the Samson. After the manufacturing of Trentons moved to Cleveland, OH, one of the former owners continued to make anvils in Trenton, NJ calling them Samsons.
- If the anvil has a very narrow waist and an 'oversized' horn, likely it is one of the newer farrier anvils. These are all one piece cast steel to my knowledge.
- On aging, steps came into common use on American and British anvils about 1780. Pritchel (punching) holes about 1830. (However, some older anvils had pritchels later drilled into them.)
Any anvil with letters, numbers or logos raised, would have been at least partially cast. In the latter years of manufacturing the American wrought iron anvil makers used cast bases rather than forging them out. Sometimes the base doesn't match the top, such as a 140 pound base used for a 160 pound top.
Raised weight markings were pretty well only on cast anvils (or cast bases) and usually had the last digit left off, such as 8 representing 80 pounds or 16 representing 160 pounds.
Anvils were usually marked on the side with the horn to the right, under the horn and on the front foot. Wirebrush using soap and water to base metal. Let thoroughly dry. Lay on side and dust with flour. Brush off, leaving flour in depressions. Do same with front foot with anvil resting on heel. Sometimes lettering or numbers just jump out at you.
If you see a 'painted lady' (a painted anvil) and it meets some of the above criteria, you might take a chance on it. However, be aware a coat of paint can hide a multitude of sins and it can still turn out to be a 'prostitute', rather than a 'good woman'. Many of the new imported anvils are painted. Personally I would not be interested in an anvil with a painted top plate as there may well be body putty under it.
From Richard Postman’s “Anvils in America”, a listing of anvil names, Blacksmith and Farrier Anvil Brands, Trademarks or Tradenames:
Ajax
American-Ross

Arm And Hammer Anvil Numbers

Arm and Hammer
Badger
Bay State
Black Prince
Brooks (Baker Vaughans Ltd.)
Buffalo Forge
Central Forge (cast iron)
Charles Hadfield
Columbus Anvil and Forging
Columbus Forge and Iron
CW
Denver
DuraSteel
Fireside
Fulton
Hay Budden
Herculies
Insonora
JHM Anvils
Keen Kutter
Kohlswa
Louisville Forged Anvil
Mankel
Mouse Hole
NC-Tool
Old Forge
Onsteel
Pedinghaus
Rat Hole Forge
Refflinghaus
Rock Island
Sampson
Sligo
Soderfors
Standard
Trenton
'USA' cheap cast iron
Arm And Hammer Anvil Serial Numbers
Vanadium Steel
Vulcan Arm-Hammer
Wilkinson
WT (Wholsale Tool - cast iron)
How to date your Mousehole anvil
Mousehole Forge anvils can be dated from their logos: (These are all circa - about - dates and the words would be stacked):
1795 - 1820: C&A MOUSEHOLE
1835 - 1854: HENRY ARMITAGE MOUSEHOLE
1878: BROOKS & COOPER MOUSEHOLE FORGE SHEFFIELD WARRANTED (with the outline of a mouse and HOLE for the first time)
1879: M&H ARMITAGE MOUSEHOLE FORGE SHEFFIELD WARRANTED (mouse) HOLE PATENT
1880: M&H ARMITAGE MOUSE HOLE FORGE (mouse) HOLE WARRANTED
Arm and hammer anvil for sale
1896: M&H ARMITAGE MOUSEHOLE FORGE SHEFFIELD WARRANTED PATENT (mouse) HOLE
1911: M&H ARMITAGE MOUSEHOLE FORGE SHEFFIELD ENGLAND WARRNANTED (mouse) HOLE PATENT
1927-1933?: OWEN-THOMAS THE OLD FORGE SHEFFIELD ENGLAND
- C&A = Cockshutt & Armitage
- Mousehole Forge is the only known manufacturer to use dots/periods between the weight numbers, such as 1 . 3 . 14. Sometimes all which remains of the logo is the dots.
- Weight markings are in the British stone system to where the first represents multiples of 112 (1/20th long ton), the second multiples of 28 and the third remaining pounds. Usually off from scale weight a bit.
- Mousehole Forge was one of the last British anvil makers to change from the old style to the modern (more blocky) feet. They did so cicra 1895.
- The origins of the name of Mousehole is not certain. The square handling holes in an old anvil are called mouseholes. In England a bend in a river with a deep spot is known as a mousehole and Mousehole Forge was located at such as spot. There is a coastal English town named Mousehole and it was well known as the site of a brief French invasion about the time the forge was started.
- Mousehole Forge contined to use water power (heave or tilt hammers) long after other manufactures switched to mechanical hammers. All Mousehole anvils are pretty well 'handmade'.
Sources; http://www.anvilsinamerica.com/products.htm, https://abana.org/resources/discus/messages/5/385.html?1453331121
The Mousehole Forge by Richard A. Postman (with John and Julia Hatfield)
Posted on